I'm Not Nearly Angry Enough About Comics At This Point
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- I recently broke down my major frustrations with Marvel and DC Comics, causing some people to say I'm too angry. Upon closer inspection I'm not nearly angry enough about Marvel and DC destroying an entire industry. I'm letting far too many terrible occurrences at Marvel and DC Comics slide these days. Allowing apathy to set in and accepting sub-mediocrity as an acceptable quality status. Wes reaffirms his commitment to calling Marvel and DC Comics on their BS and doing so without any fear. I'm not nearly angry enough about comics at this point.
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The biggest question is how Marvel and DC are NOT understanding the feedback that is literally everywhere.
It is all ridiculous. They used to ask for feedback and hire separate companies to perform research in what people want. And now that all this is free and available everywhere, they just ignore it and say "Your feedback is what is wrong, not our perfect unsellable products!".
It is like the entire industry only hired mentally unstable children, for every single position. Childish CEO, childish bosses, childish editors, childish writers. I guess inkers, letterers etc could be grown adults, considering they do their job and don't make much noise. But they are probably also just AI these days.
It's obvious. It's not about MONEY, it's about sending a message. These are activists not artists. They WILL drive these companies and the entire artform into their graves LONG before even CONSIDERING changing course. They will always serve ideology before customers. Always. Literally, the only option is to fire every single staff member currently in both the big 2 for good. Bring in actual fans and artists.
@@cloverfan98 Exactly - it's about appeasing huge hedge fund investors like Blackrock and Vanguard who are buying influential interests in companies around the world and pushing this shit. The reason they do it is completely satanic, evil, and weird, and too tough for most people to swallow.
Because they still make a shitload of money and aren't overly concerned with how they're doing it. It is unfortunate but true of every company approaching their scale
They don't need to. They're getting ESG/DEI money, which is more reliable that yours or mine.
Rip in peace the guy from comicstorian.
Absolutely
I really wanted to see thinking critical and comicstorian do a crossover.
That's Benny. That man was awesome.
@@DarthDread-oh2neHis name was Benny Potter. Great guy, really loved his content even tho I started watching him in recent years.
What about the comic book girl?
You’re not too angry, we are seeing a bunch of liars and pathetic people are running the show, I’m angry too
A hobby or frenchise dies not when people are angry or unhappy. But when people just stop to care.
Your right, i honestly have seen less and less outrage and anger at comics and more apathy. The comic book industry has been slowing dying and fading away for years now, your more likely to find someone interested in a random manga than a Batman or avengers comics
*franchise*
I disagree. You seem
justifiably perpetually pissed, like most of us. :)
His core fan group might be the saltiest people on earth
@kinnymane8593 please explain?
@@truespartan1000 which part? my comment was incredibly self explanatory
I’m not perpetually pissed. I am just doing my own thing with The Pensuke Files
I’m not angry. Im apathetic. I just don’t care anymore.
"Just read the things you like" they say as they look over your shoulder for what to corrupt next
I’ve stopped being angry and am more apathetic. That doesn’t mean I get a pang of anger when I hear what they are doing to poor Peter but my Spiderman ended after the early 2000’s.
Wes’ business is dependent on comics. He can’t afford to be apathetic.
Glad i'm not the only one sensing the cultural assassination of Peter Parker
Oh... But didn't you know, Wes? We are supposed to not ask questions, just consume the product and get excited for the next one. Otherwise, we are just bigots. 🤐🤦
Im not a mindless consumer if they don't have quality than im not going to support or consumer their products, I used to be a loyal fan of comics until they started to start seeing everyone as mindless consumers
Just don't buy the books then and shut up about it. It isn't that hard.
Coooonsuuuume.
@@guywholikesheelies3231
"Don't buy our books, bigots"
Okay
"Wait how come no one is buying our books? They must be bigots"
@@guywholikesheelies3231 his channel is to provide commentary on comic books so it makes sense he will continue to talk about them
It really boils down to bad editors hiring bad writers. Writers who should not be in comics at all include Sina Grace, Nicole Maines, Tom King, Si Spurrier, Stephanie Williams, Tini Howard, Leah Williams, Mark Russell, among others. These are DC writers I actively avoid.
Tom King can actually write. But, he would rather talk about PTSD for the millionth time or ruin a character to tell the story he wants to tell.
@@brianlong9650 Until Tom King learns to write a character in character, then he will continue to be in the “can’t write” catagory.
eh, Mr Miracle was really good, same with Rorschach
@art2005pmr Mr. Miracle had quality writing. However, it was a story King wanted to tell about PTSD and not a good Mr. Miracle story. The story did a great job using metaphors. But, the characterizations were way off.
I just can't believe why either in comics or the MCU, they just refuse to listen to fans.
I think editorial is the root of the problem.
1. Can you imagine if they took their current approach decades ago? If editorial told Frank Miller, “here’s the story I want you to tell on Daredevil.” Or the same with Alan Moore on Swamp Thing. How many current writers actually get to tell the stories they want to tell? Even those that have a little leeway get interrupted by constant events.
2. The old pathways to working at the big two are blocked. A writer used to prove themselves making independent comics, then get hired by Marvel or DC, make a name there, then go back to the indies with an increased readership, where they can own and profit off their own work. Has anyone of proven quality made the jump from the indies to the big two in recent years?
Editors should be scouting for new talent based on ability, not identity. I wouldn’t be surprised if the current editors barely even read their own comics, let alone indie titles.
And their editorial interference should be limited to ensuring that the writers aren’t breaking the characters. No more characters with a 30-50 year history of heterosexuality suddenly turning gay. No more heroes becoming psychopaths and treating that as a good thing because they’re killing the ‘right’ kind of people.
We need writers who like and respect these characters, and have stories to tell. They need the freedom to tell those stories. It seems like upper management doesn’t have their hands on the wheel, and the editors are getting away with whatever stupid shit they think up. Replacing incompetent editors would be a huge step in the right direction.
WE ALL COMIC BOOK GEEKS- SAULTE TO BENNY COMICHISTORIAN
"You're being too emotional about this" -- said by every narcissist ever.
That generalization is rich, especially coming from the same crowd that thinks that the wrong spoken words or not saying anything is "violence."
RIP Benny Potter aka Comicstorian.
I don't really care about comic books anymore. It's simply because the characters don't even act like they used to in the books. You can tell the companies have went corporate because the characters no longer evolve due to the fact that they are used as just money making. IPs.
This is why MANGA Is killing comics.
I'm more depressed with Marvel and DC condition in nowadays more than angry. ASM is so terrible right now that I don't even bothered in read the latest issues of my favorite comic book superhero of all. Fall Of X was one of my worst experiences in reading a X-Men book in my entire life. Batman main titles are so boring right now that I'm losting my interest in them. DC sales are so low right now that make me wonder if the publisher will stay around until the next decade. Sadness is my main feeling about DC and Marvel in these days.
We lost another store at the mall I work in. Now I have to go into Federal Way if I want to get that Punisher: Get Fury comic.
I understand you completely, Wes. You and I are a month apart in age. When we were teens even a low tier book like Quasar had a creative team of Mark Gruenwald and Greg Capullo. We got to see the highest of highs. It's truly a travesty what has happened to the industry. And even worse that it's self-inflicted.
But Wes, it’s Pride Month, I’m sure all those comics will save the industry.
They expect you to eat shit and call it caviar.
No one is been forced to Buy and read those comics.
Same people talking about micro-agressions are the ones saying "not everything is for you, buy it or shut up".
The issue as I see it are the creators themselves are mostly pink-haired LGBTQ flag sporting folks, and the editors are too petrified to upset them. Like how many times have we seen creators blasting us long time comic collectors because they're busy gender/sex/race swapping our long time characters against our wishes?
Umm… whom exactly are you talking about?
@user-on2qy5cu6u Tini Howard turning Elizabeth Braddock lesbian. Megan Fitzmartin making Tim Drake gay. Bendis gaying Iceman. Tom Taylor with John Kent. That DC douche who just rage quit Alan Scott after making him a "hero" who frequents gay prostitutes
I feel your pain Wes. Yet I still try to pick up a few comic book titles a month. And buy back issues just to support my local comic book shop.
I saw the down fall of the comic book industry back in 2016. I vented and ranted on social media. Only to get kicked out and banned out of many comic book groups. Once being a geek became a popular trend and normies co opted geekdom. Is when the industry became self destructive.
If the comic book industry ended I wouldn't be mad. I would be sad. But as long as comic or hobby shops exist that sell old comics, manga, graphic novels, ect. I will be ok.
People who watched the movies decided to become fans. The wrong people. People that demand representation across the board.
@@saiyan_spawn4204 Normies didnt become fans of the comics. They didnt buy the comics They just wrnt out to see the movies.And watch the Disney plus shows.
If the normies cared about representation comics sales wouldve been really good during the MCU era. But they were not.
I’ve gotten confirmation from people at Ghost Machine that Peter Tomasi and Brad Walker’s creator owned book “Snipe & Slug” will be published by Ghost Machine. They announced that book at the end of their Detective run over 3 years ago.
That sounds pretty interesting! Any idea what that book is about?
Tony Stark: We need the Hulk, Bruce!
Bruce: I am not nearly angry enough about comics at this point.
You know the industry has gone to shit when foil covers of old books are on the racks.
You have taken every word out of my mouth. Sometimes it feels like I am yelling at the sky. It's so nice to frequent a channel such as yours and know I am not alone.
Dan Slott actually had a clause in his contract wherein he gets first right of refusal so once Mister Ross showed interest, Slott decided he wanted to write a FF comic.
I started collecting early 2000s Flash since Jeremy Adams left to get my Flash fix.
The name of the imprint within DC that eventually turn out to be Ghost Machine was named "The Killing Zone"
The art quality is s bad in the main Marvel comics now it is unbelievable it looks like I drew it in 9th grade.
Wes and YaBoiZack currently executing a perfect "double heel/face turn".
I reached a state of apathy when even ComicsGate stopped turning up projects I was interested in. We're moving into a self-inflicted recession by the entertainment industry and I think most people are ready to start seeing blocks falling down. I don't even tune into this show for the comics themselves anymore, it's mainly just the personalities on this show and different opinions on storylines.
Dc readers will read and love scott snyder stories. The bar is so low, it's hitting moleman in the head
The corporate ownership of comic books thought the movies are where the money is and forgot that the comics wrote the screenplay.
I don't know what else to do. My purchases make it clear that I don't want the new crap, but am happy to pay for quality (in the form of Epic Collections and Facsimile Editions). They just don't care. It's very hard to say goodbye to new comics, but I had to. Back in 2018 I was finished with it (a line was crossed in 2011--New52--and I was done) it took me awhile to admit that.
I still love and collect old comics. Pre 1986 or so. I'd rather pay $5 per issue for something old I will cherish than a new comic I can't bear to finish reading...
I'm not even into Comics, i never was. But i like your passion. The industry needs more ppl like you, that's for sure.
RIGHT ON,, in full agreement!! GIVER!
I finally bailed about a year ago. I had enough of the boring long winded stories combined with the prices. I jumped into back issues to get my comic fix. I keep an eye out on the new stuff still, but almost nothing has made me bite. And thanks for tallking about PISKOR,, its awful how its just ignored.
It is a strange time in comics when you have more excitement and momentum in comics based on 30yr old cartoon franchises (GI Joe, TMNT and Transformers) than you have in hundreds of comics with legacy characters
My anger turned to apathy when I realized they weren't listening and didn't care about making money. When you can't "vote with your wallet" and can't facilitate change then there's nothing left. Just read old issues and listen to smart reviewers like yourself while they continue to disgrace once great characters.
DC and Marvel are a reflection of their new surroundings. They both used to be based in NYC and mirrored urban in one of the oldest cities.
Last week in my local comic shop I heard a mother tell her children, who were around six and seven year old, not to look at the new DC books and to only look at the new Marvel books. Then she said ' We don't read DC books we only read Marvel. I wonder how long she'll let them read Marvel books?
As someone who quit modern comics nearly 8 years ago it has been rough seeing everything going continuously downhill. With the prices so high can't imagine spending the kind of money I used to for this. But I can assure bronze age comics & further back still read just fine. Getting ready to re-read Swamp Thing from the 70's & after that either some old Conan or maybe Batman the Knightfall saga.
"Come on Walter, man, you're not even Jewish!"
"I converted when I married Cynthia, Dude, you know that."
"Yeah, and then she divorced your ass. You're livin' in the past, man!"
(Deep breath)
"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax, YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I'M LIVIN' IN THE FUCKIN' PAST!"
- The Big Lebowski
This downfall mostly owes to the changing culture behind the scenes in editorial and writing, the successors (for lack of a better term) holding the pioneers and their legacies in utter contempt. And their brand of attitude and mediocrity have carried over to the MCU for the mainstream audience to see.
WAIT THEY TOOK SLOTT OVER ROSS!?!?!?
Probably Slott himself wonder about that!😂😂
@@yamatokira4335 he honestly seems like the most openly lazy people I’ve ever seen who is still for some reason able to move books
"...with a straight look on their face,"
I'm surprised I've never heard of someone being fired for using that phrase by now.
You can’t get angry at something, that’s become so unrecognisably bad, that you don’t care about anymore. It hurts to see what Marvel and especially DC have done to my favourite characters but i can’t be bothered to pick up new comics anymore…
In a selfish way I kinda want James Gunn’s new DCU to fail, because if it even just does alright it will extend the death spiral of terrible writing and bad decisions at DC by another +10 years.
Back in the day, a comic only sold 2 k copies it would have been cancelled.
I WANT YOU MAD!!
00:00:00 - Frustration With Mediocre Comic Books
00:00:37 - Coverage Of The Comic Book Industry
00:01:14 - The State Of Modern Comic Books
00:01:51 - The Pathway To Total Annihilation And Destruction
00:02:29 - Lack Of Progression In The Comic Book Industry
00:03:08 - The Decline Of Marvel Comics Sales
00:03:44 - The Decline Of Marvel Comics
00:04:22 - The Decline Of Marvel Comics Quality
00:04:53 - Lack Of Diversity At Marvel Comics
00:05:29 - Marvel Comics' Struggles In Hiring Talent
00:06:10 - The Mediocrity Of Dan Slot In Fantastic 4
00:06:52 - DC Comics And The Neglected Talent
00:07:29 - Disappointment With DC Comics' Decision
00:08:11 - The Success Of The Event
00:08:47 - Bullying In The Comic Book Industry
00:09:24 - Leadership Responsibility In The Comic Book Industry
00:10:03 - The Dark Side Of The Industry
00:10:44 - Destruction Of Beloved Characters In Comics
00:11:22 - The Incompetence Of Industry Leadership
00:12:02 - The Insanity Of The Industry
00:12:40 - Cash Grabbing In The Comic Book Industry
00:13:13 - The Survival Of The Comic Book Industry
00:13:50 - The Future Of Marvel And DC Comics
00:14:26 - The Problems With Comic Books
00:15:02 - No More Tolerating Bullshit
I'm just sad that DC comics will never be good again.
Great video, Wes. I totally understand your anger. I used to feel this way. Now I just don't care. I'm friends with the owner of my LCS, so I make a point of going down and trying to get something from him at least once a month. The only new comic book that I actively purchase is Conan the Barbarian. I'll also buy everything Mark Millar does once it hits trade. That's it. About fifteen years ago, I was probably spending about $100 a month on comics. Now I might spend $20. And there are thousands of guys like me out there. I talk to them when I'm in the shop. They come in out of nostalgia for a hobby they no longer have. The store itself is doing fine, but that's because the bulk of his business comes from sales of Manga, cards, genre fiction, and high-end collectibles. It's sad to see just how far the American comic book market has fallen, and the wounds it's suffered are totally self-inflicted. Keep up with the great content.
You go Wes! Tell 'em!!! And I'm right here with you! The only way for things to change is for good people to get pissed and do something about it. You have every right to be angry and there are a whole lot of people just like you who are just as angry. But you sir have a platform that you can use and the will and knowledge to use it. I love your shows and I agree with everything you say and I'm thankful for not just the entertainment you provide but for the education as well. Well done, Wes. Don't give up, don't give in, and thank you for your service!
Is there any new, younger audience for Marvel and DC books recently? I just know, most of them read Manga.
Kids doesn't read mainstream superhero comics also, because it's too expensive for them.
Honestly I’d rather they stop writing in continuity stories, the writers they currently have, have far more success writing elseworld stories. If the writer becomes trusted and has a good idea that can push the story forward in an interesting way, they get the continuity book. Would also require way smarter editors than they currently have.
I'm really getting sick of even basic constructive criticism about an obviously flawed product is being treated as straight up toxic, hate speech, whatever buzzword. Yes, I want to look on the bright side too and give ACTUAL talented creators and good stories the spot light they deserve. But so many act like anything less than glowing praises is pure negativity. It really doesn't help so much media only cares about shallow DEI quotas and we keep being pelted with examples about why that's a bad idea to base everything off those.
I share your anger!
Since my youth I dreamed that here in Poland we'll catch up with Batman's newest releases. Now I regret we did... and this pisses me off!
It baffles how/why a business would continue the same practices as sales and interest plummet. This isn't a government gig, you'd think they need to show profit or improvement at some point.
Companies have other incentives. DEI comics for ESG to farm investors bucks. The investor is the main customer.
@@PrivateCitizen84 exactly, they generally want a return on their investment. Disney must just see it as an IP farm and losses are acceptable.
Thanks for speaking up as always! Its the saddest thing to see something you grew up with being utterly decimated
I have Fantastic Four: Full Circle and its one of my most treasured things to reread. You cant imagine how aghast I was listening to you and hearing they rejected Alex Ross and went with Dan Slott instead. That's like turning down steak and being happy with moldy tuna fish sandwiches. I just cant!
Until the ESG/DEI money goes way, and there are Editorial changes at the big two, we're pretty much screwed.
I was born in 03 and only got into comics at 18 and have only done so for 2 years. It really saddens me to see how Marvel and DC are doing nowadays, though I'm happy buying older stuff from second hand comic shops and Ebay. The high prices and especially the A.I allegations are why I'm never buying new comics again.
I suspect that Marvel,DC, and others have an additional revenue source other than comic book sales.
I've been saying for a few years that there needs to be a new company that is ran by enthusiast with a broad catalog. There needs to be a company that filters out woke writers with a focus on social politics and "changing the narrative" about punitive topics. There are plenty of independents who make classic and good stories but lack the publishing power to get noticed.
I know how you feel, I've gone through anger, frustration, apathy, I don't want to be in this neverending circle of torment. I want great comics, stuff mediocre comics, I want comics to be cool, heroes to be heroic heroes.
I've spent the hundreds I used to spend on my favourite Marvel and DC creators elsewhere. I gave Harry Partridge £32 for his Starbarians indie Gogo. I've bought Chainsaw Man, I've bought Sakamoto Days, I've bought One Punch Man, Mob Psycho 100, Kaiju no.8, I've bought stuff from Rippaverse, Rooster Fighter, I've bought Udons Street Fighter stuff I originally missed.
Marvel hired shit that actively told me not to buy. DC has desperately aped Marvel's failing strategy. Both companies have produced so many titles that NOBODY wanted.
My money is still there, I could live for as many decades as I've already been around for. Weird the "Big" Two don't seem to want it.
T-they turned down Ross? For Slottt....
Is there a slow gas leak at Marvel? It would explain a lot.
SHIT HAPPENS!😂
- Forrest Gump -
In the meantime I am just doing my own thing with The Pensuke Files! It goes against the insanity of the bigwigs of the industry today
While I have Spent thousands on Collected editions of Marvel / DC material covering up the to the Mid 80s and still willing to collect that era I would not lose any sleep If Both Companies ceased printing new comics. that ship sailed a long time ago
Maybe, dear Wes, it's time for MARVEL and DC to burn down to the ground, just like STAR WARS. I'm not sure how it happened (I do have my suspicions, though), but at some point many big players in the entertainment industry became disconnected with their audience. They started to believe they could educate us instead of just entertain us. And now we're seeing the results. People are leaving, not only because the products are getting worse, but also because they are getting worse at higher prices. Honestly, this will be studied in business and marketing schools for years to come as a lesson in "paying customer comes always first". Anyway, please keep those reviews coming, good or bad, full of joy or anger, because, review channels on RUclips like yours are the best entertainment we mere mortals can afford right now.
I've been angry for over 2 years now fir cranking out that Bull they call asm atm.
Was the only book i was allowed to read..
Thank God ultimate spider-man came.
But i don't see change comming.
Wes got so mad that he turned into the Red Hulk!
Going WAAAY back and collecting the Ed Brubaker winter soldier run on Captain American and couldn't be happier. Haven't bought new marvel since then. And no plans to any time soon.
The real question is: with how bad comic sales are...how do these companies have the money to keep putting out DEI crap?!
I've been hearing more and more people say that with esg/dei, you (company) will perform better and make more profits. They don't point to any big studies that proves this.
Wes, keep posting.
Screw the Naysayers.
I appreciate your opinion, and I love your channel
They fucked up when they killed Alfred and didn't marry Batman. You have to trade. Ya can't just short change on both ends. Dead Alfred, married Batman, is growing up moving forward Batman. Big shit. They flinched. And it's been in a tail spin ever since. We're just lesser on all fronts.
So Wes, tell us how you really feel!
Preach brother.
Every time I go into Ollies and see the shelves of totally ignored comics, I feel that society has lost something.
they can't comprehend that 'new voices' doesn't mean 'good voices'.
I don't even get angry anymore, i just laugh.
Opions are like butt holes ..the sales numbers themselves should be the number 1 indicator .. let's say for sake of argument everyone online is just trolling .. racist..sexiest etc...the sales numbers should be all the proff they need that the stories they are selling are not working
DC destroys Vertigo. Finally starts dropping Vertigo omnis. What??
Being a DC is like seeing a dear friend spiral out of control and all you can do is stand by and watch..😢
DC should just bring out one story each kinda books for their characters
Not an issue by issue thing but like one big book for each miniseries/short story.
But yeah, you're right; we ought be angrier
I would love to see Indy creators work on Marvel and DC comics. If the big two are cash strapped, that’s fine. Bring in some unknown creators and tell the editors to give them free reign to create. Give it six months and see what happens. I live in hope that new creators bring something new to the books.
Like the Acolyte, comics have been handed to the Community. The producers know that this stuff is going to be rejected and ridiculed. This is meant to show the Community that they are being rejected by larger society to further isolate and radicalize them.
What's up Thinking Criticalytes.
The greatest thing about Marvel and DC being in the shitter is that back issues were I live are going for super cheap. So I can read mostly anything I want from the 90s and 00s for cheap.
Stores are selling bundles of 20 comics for $8.
Yeah, I hear you, Wes -- but what about Hefvyn Lotko fmc and Red Rooster??
Two solid franchises that have potential. People don't want good stuff or what??
I'm confused. What the f?
I feel ya Wes but I can't give my money to people who clearly hate me...
100% will not support any form of hate shown towards fans
You have every right to be mad. I've seen enough videos from your channel to know how bad the western comic industry has gotten.
I have Bought marvel & DC for half a century I work in the Media / Entertainment & yes Comics Industry, And It Hurts to say I completely Agree with you 100% Not because it hurts to Agree with you, But because what you say is pretty much on Target. There is a reason why Clearmont Byrne Alex Ross Larry ahama to name a small Handful of creators, Worked so well in their field. Cause they Knew / Know thier Craft. And were Invested in the Characters, say what you want about Liefeld His Passion and Drive and Love for the characters Shows through in all he does, Instead Now we have Wickipedia reaserching Writers, with Social Agendas to Promote writing and drawing books where the characters are only marginally recognizable as the characters we love and were inspired by. Creating story to promote an ideal rather than write great stories that have ideals as a by product, which is IMHO much more impactful anyway, If they Trimmed the oputput and concentrated on Qaulity, damn the sales would start rising again.
You mean Obey and Consume isn't enough for you 😁
No! You must consume more Breen. Consume more product! 😅
So many things about modern day suck.
.... I really like Slott's F4. But I agree. He can't write more than one book at a time.
One of the few redeeming things in the industry right now is the Ghost Machine Universe. Geoff Johns and his bullpen of A-List artists is a breath of much needed fresh air!
I must say that I'm enjoying Peach Momoko's Ultimate X-Men more than I thought I would. It's obvious that she put a lot of thought and work into it, with tones of Death Note. Though you can't really call it an American comic book so that might be the problem right there.
Rip to Benny the comicstorian
Amen, Wes. Silence is not golden, in this case. If the real comic fans don't stand up for something (good), they will continue to fall for everything bad.